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Too many rests?

edited November -1 in Symphony Pro
First, thank you very much for all your hard work. It must have been tough. Well done! :)

Second, I'm having problems with entering notes using the new Record process.

Specifically, when I play a melody using the iPad keyboard, spurious rests appear almost between every note: i.e. nearly every note is approx half its intended duration with a spurious rest making up the other half.

I appreciate that quantising (or whatever it's called!) is very challenging to code and that this may not be a problem using a proper MIDI keyboard. However, it's going to make editing an iPad entered melody rather a nightmare.

Do you have any suggestions/responses, please?

Thank you again!


  • Hi Barry,

    Thanks for your feedback

    Note durations are sensitive to how long you hold the key, although the quantization will try to remove short rests in between notes (such as by turning a sixteenth note + sixteenth rest + eighth note into 2 eighth notes). Try playing in a more legato fashion to reduce these rests.

    Also, if you're working with 1 melody line, turn off multi-voice.

    Let me know if this helps. I look forward to some more feedback.

  • edited October 2011
    Hi Phil,

    Thanks for your fast response!

    I think the problem is that it is almost impossible to play the iPad keyboard in a true legato style... the keys are too narrow for comfortable and, more importantly, accurate multi-finger playing. I find I can only play accurately one-fingered... and, obviously, this causes a "rest" between notes as the finger leaves the keyboard and moves to the next key. [Hence my comment in my original post that this might not be a problem when using a "proper" keyboard (i.e. MIDI) where legato is entirely natural.]

    Unless I'm the only one having this issue, please would you kindly put the following suggestion at the back of your mind for consideration?... it's a fix which might have other benefits.

    Perhaps, during editing, one could select the note and its spurious rest, then press a button "combine" which takes the first element (i.e. the "half-note") and adds the second element (i.e. the "half-rest") to create a full-note with no rest. This would significantly - actually, massively - reduce the editing demands of correcting each element separately.

    Indeed, if the determinant is the leading element, then this could be used more generally.

    Just a thought...! :)
  • Thanks for your detailed response.

    We'll definitely consider your feature request. What I'm thinking is similar - selecting a note and then tapping a new note value to change its duration. Normally (in the current version), the app won't let you extend the duration of the note if the measure is already full, but the new feature will allow you to do so by dropping the rest ahead of it.

    However, also note that the current version does drop rests, but only if the rest is at the end of a measure.

  • edited October 2011
    Hi Phil,

    I hope that my thoughts are perceived as they are meant... within my admiration for what you guys have achieved. It was because of hearing about Symphony Pro that I decided to enter the 21st Century and buy an iPad!

    I personally - and functionally - think that both processes have merit. [If you will forgive the slight, and not terribly British, self approval!]

    The method you describe is a "must", anyway, in my view. It is a completely natural process of editing a composition... change one value and then tweak the ramifications. It might help if the remaining elements were colourised in some way to indicate the need for tweaking. Perhaps one colour indicating an excess - as in the case you mention - and another colour indicating a short-fall. The colourisation would return to default once the elements added up to a complete measure.

    The method I posed could have valuable editing possibilities, too. It probably could be a touch faster in dealing with the issue of spurious rests. Since it requires less thought, it might be a comfortable routine, too... I hope that makes some sence to you!... and would benefit more novice users by it's 'obviousness'. It also mimics some aspects of how I edit: combining contiguous elements whilst retaining the rhythm structure.

    Don't worry about replying... I bet you chaps need some serious downtime! :)
  • @ Berry S, You are not the only one having the problem.
  • @Barry S:

    Thanks. We'll definitely add this feature, or one that will behave really similarly. I agree that it is intuitive & sensible.

    To address both Barry S and mrgoodhands:

    We'll eventually issue an update that will make the keys a bit wider to allow performance to be more fluid for recording. In the long run, there will be a virtual keyboard similar to Garage Band on the iPad, which couldn't be any better. Let us know what you think.

  • Thanks Phil...

    I'm so impressed. Not only an exceptional product but also First Rate customer support and an obvious dedication to quality. :)
  • Hi Phil...

    I've given this further thought... particularly as the rests issue is driving me crazy. Basically, I just can't seem to play legato-enough using the on-screen keyboard and don't think a modest resize will sufficiently resolve the matter.

    May I propose a possible solution that addresses the source of the problem, rather than my previous suggestions that address the symptoms?

    When inputting using a keyboard (i.e. on-screen or external), a button appears marked "legato". If this is selected, then the quantising avoids creating rests and presumes that one note follows the next one without an intervening rest - except, possibly, really obvious rests. If the legato button is not selected (i.e. typically during external input), then the quantising is as present, accurately interpreting the input.
  • Hi Barry,

    Well, at least you gave it another shot. I can definitely consider your request. Just give me a few more pieces of information though: (1) the length of the rests you're trying to get rid of (2) time signature (3) and tempo.

    For example, if you're using 4/4 at the standard 110 bpm, and you're seeing 32nd note rests, these rests shouldn't be there in the first place, but if you're trying to get rid of entire quarter rests, then a separate option would be necessary.

  • Hi Phil,

    Thanks for your speedy response.

    4/4, 110 bpm

    I'm trying to play - crochet - crochet - minim.
    I get - quaver - quaver rest - quaver - quaver rest - quaver - crochet rest - quaver rest.

    I hope that makes sense...

  • Hi Barry,

    To automatically remove quavers will require a separate option. Expect it for version 2.4. However, there will be more quantization options in 2.3 that may help. For now, try playing at a slower tempo. 

    Thanks for all of your feedback.

  • I was going to state Phil's suggestion: play at a slower tempo.

    My biggest issue is that the program is sensitive enough that it doesn't add rests, but it makes quarter notes staccato.

    Is there a sensitivity option for the level of quantization?
  • Hi Chris,

    This is an option that we're working on. Right now quantization is automatic, dependent on the time signature (e.g sixteenth note for 4/4, 32nd note for 4/8). 

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